Very insightful post, Chris! I appreciate the lesson on philosophy, and I don't think I'll look at Joe Rogan the same way again.
I think what I'm seeing more and more is "safety" as a key underpinning to the modern "Noble Lie" of every society (that I see). Maybe that's always been the case.
I mentioned in a post a while back that I (as a pedestrian) was nearly run over by a cyclist who ran a red light, but that he could only do so because he was in a protected bike lane. The bike lanes are always advocated by cyclists as important safety measures to safeguard their lives, which I don't doubt they do. But I have also always wondered that if they were not afforded their guardrails, then they'd likely be less careless, too.
I also wonder how much of this is a lack of violence versus a lack of "skin in the game" (which subsumes violence).
There's a post I'm working on right now about someone I suspect to be charlatan (selling AI as a golden goose, snake oil, etc.) I don't wish violence upon this person. But if this person were to lose all of his earnings (and then some) because of his lies, I wonder if he would still take that chance of potentially "defrauding" others, so to speak. Is the proverbial Tysonian "punch in the mouth" worse than long-term financial ruin these days? I'm not so sure.
So, there's a part of me that thinks: the truth reveals itself as long as people are held accountable for misconduct. If that makes sense. It's just that despite all the shady salespeople and malicious marketers (especially on social media), I don't feel we hold their feet to the fire often enough (if at all) for whatever reason. At least, not as far as I can tell.
Hi Alvin, I remember your article about bicycle lanes and completely agreed with the points you made in it. You raise some really interesting issues about deterrence.
We would do well to re-think the obsolete and clearly wrong notions of crime and punishment we've inherited from the 1960s. All they've done is empower bad actors and sow chaos, disorder, and injustice.
Robin's comment on this piece is a good prompt for remembering the extensive physical abuse of women and children in our society. It's shocking to witness the degree to which our hiphop music and other forms of popular "entertainment" have increasingly normalized beating and killing women and sexually exploiting children--as long as the crimes are committed by a protected class of people. Rampant fraud is another example of anti-social criminal behaviour that is clearly metastasizing through once-healthy financial markets and business environments.
The idea that "poverty" explains why small subcultures commit these crimes is ridiculous.
As you suggest, if we are serious about preserving our social order we'll probably have to re-think the way we apply violence to the predators abusing innocent and vulnerable citizens.
Great article, Chris! I don't watch/listen to Rogan much. But I do understand the importance of Rogan in our culture and admire him. I hadn't known his background but it all makes a lot of sense. You make your points well.
I reflected back on violence in my life.
I have two incidents of violence in my life which were life-changing. First, I was a fairly violent little tomboy (much to my mother's chagrin) and tended to win my fights against boys, who were the ones I had a problem with. But then, one day I was fighting with my brother. Puberty had come for him. I lost badly. And I never picked a flight with a guy again. I got that with post-puberty males, try a different tack - like friendliness, agreeableness, kindness. That worked. No man was interested in hitting me until episode two.
I will skip the details but I ended up stepping between a very unequal fight between and a man and woman. The man turned on me and, a broken nose and 36 stitches later, I would have done nothing different. Everyone told me I was crazy to have done that. But, I found out that was my bottomline. I was - it turns out - a fight and not flight kinda of woman. I was ready to die to help a woman in distress. Plus, I found out that if a man wanted to, he could kill me really easily. So, again - I should lean into to friendliness, agreeableness, kindness. Which I try to do on a daily basis - and it has worked! - but I still might die defending a weaker person. I am ok with that.
So, for a woman, it's all quite different. But violence is certainly a teacher.
As an aside, in terms of the Obama/Trump famous incident, you say: "propagandists have since denied any link between the roasting of Trump that night and his election as President five year later in 2016, but it is true." Who are these propagandists? I thought everybody knew that was true.
Wow--full respect, Robin! I'm horrified to hear how badly you were injured in that fight, but I feel tremendous admiration for your courage and willingness to fight for the weak and vulnerable. I was similarly motivated in almost all my fights, but I never paid the price you did. You are an authentic warrior in the best possible sense, the sense I'm writing about, those gifted human beings who are also physically and morally courageous. It's a total revelation to me that you have stepped up the way you did, but knowing you it's not a surprise. Well done--I salute you!
It's good I live in a neighborhood that it is unlikely that I will be in that situation again! So, I know it is both true of myself, but very unlikely.
Thanks for writing this! Any recommendations for martial arts training? I’m interested in self-defense mostly and have been considering Krav Maga but I don’t how much does it live to the hype
I studied Tae Kwon Do as a teenager in Korea, but it was too violent for me, not my style—I didn’t want to cripple opponents. By contrast, Joe Rogan became quite a champion in Tae Kwon Do. Today, Joe Rogan practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and believes it to be the highest level of martial arts, although a BJJ practitioner has to add a striking capability in order to be a fully effective fighter.
Personally, I’ve been training in Tai Chi daily for sixteen years.
…it’s incredible the cultural moment comedy is having, but also unsurprising I suppose given all the historical contexts…this piece made me remember a time someone pointed out to me how difficult mentally it might be to play football…it was a surprise at the time because i played it and had almost exclusively meatheaded experience with it…but i, my team, my coaches, all amateurs…to be good at football requires an intellect…being good at anything really…and in rogan’s context what he might be best at currently is attracting comedy and conversation…it seems modern comedians becoming philosophers and journalists…but i think that’s old hat…what is modern might be how much we care that it is so…perhaps this is the funniest era of all time, only time will tell…i have to assume it was the caveman era because enh ugh guh enh…
You make a great point Fis--American football is extremely complex and requires high intelligence. Not coincidentally, football players also have to face their fears at the prospect of pain and injury. The whole delusion about athletes being dumb and intellectuals being smart is way overdue for being dumped on the ash heap of history.
Financial markets have always valued high-level sports achievements when hiring candidates, and that's because it's long been recognized that the ability to think under pressure with clarity, and to adapt rapidly to own's mistakes and setbacks, is the real sign of intelligence--not speaking in whatever the current code words of the academic elite may be.
And of course the ability to laugh at life and our own foibles is the best medicine and the traditional way to stay sane and balanced despite the apparent absurdities and chaos of life.
This is a wonderfully thought out piece, Chris. I've listened to Rogan a few times in the past and he always struck me as Socratic, unafraid to question or look uninformed, and definitely not willing to back down to censorship. This was excellent.
I agree with you Sam about a stellar aspect of Rogan's demeanour being the way he has no problem looking uninformed; I think that's one of the reasons so many of us relate to his approach. He doesn't let his ego get in the way of figuring something out.
I am a big fan of your Substack https://substack.com/@whatthen My reflections on violence, as an amateur, have no doubt gained much from the many times over the past year I have reflected on your meditations on your experiences as a Navy SEAL. You're a great example of a warrior who is also a first class culture creator.
This is really interesting -- and makes a lot of sense to me. I'm a woman, but I used to play ice hockey and still play dodgeball, both fairly "rough" sports, and I have found that many insights for my writing come to me in that meditative state when I'm playing. I'm always a bit surprised when some people look down on athletes, especially fighters and those in rougher sports, as though they aren't particularly smart -- my experience has been that most people who are really good with their bodies are also good with their minds.
Very insightful post, Chris! I appreciate the lesson on philosophy, and I don't think I'll look at Joe Rogan the same way again.
I think what I'm seeing more and more is "safety" as a key underpinning to the modern "Noble Lie" of every society (that I see). Maybe that's always been the case.
I mentioned in a post a while back that I (as a pedestrian) was nearly run over by a cyclist who ran a red light, but that he could only do so because he was in a protected bike lane. The bike lanes are always advocated by cyclists as important safety measures to safeguard their lives, which I don't doubt they do. But I have also always wondered that if they were not afforded their guardrails, then they'd likely be less careless, too.
I also wonder how much of this is a lack of violence versus a lack of "skin in the game" (which subsumes violence).
There's a post I'm working on right now about someone I suspect to be charlatan (selling AI as a golden goose, snake oil, etc.) I don't wish violence upon this person. But if this person were to lose all of his earnings (and then some) because of his lies, I wonder if he would still take that chance of potentially "defrauding" others, so to speak. Is the proverbial Tysonian "punch in the mouth" worse than long-term financial ruin these days? I'm not so sure.
So, there's a part of me that thinks: the truth reveals itself as long as people are held accountable for misconduct. If that makes sense. It's just that despite all the shady salespeople and malicious marketers (especially on social media), I don't feel we hold their feet to the fire often enough (if at all) for whatever reason. At least, not as far as I can tell.
Hi Alvin, I remember your article about bicycle lanes and completely agreed with the points you made in it. You raise some really interesting issues about deterrence.
We would do well to re-think the obsolete and clearly wrong notions of crime and punishment we've inherited from the 1960s. All they've done is empower bad actors and sow chaos, disorder, and injustice.
Robin's comment on this piece is a good prompt for remembering the extensive physical abuse of women and children in our society. It's shocking to witness the degree to which our hiphop music and other forms of popular "entertainment" have increasingly normalized beating and killing women and sexually exploiting children--as long as the crimes are committed by a protected class of people. Rampant fraud is another example of anti-social criminal behaviour that is clearly metastasizing through once-healthy financial markets and business environments.
The idea that "poverty" explains why small subcultures commit these crimes is ridiculous.
As you suggest, if we are serious about preserving our social order we'll probably have to re-think the way we apply violence to the predators abusing innocent and vulnerable citizens.
Great article, Chris! I don't watch/listen to Rogan much. But I do understand the importance of Rogan in our culture and admire him. I hadn't known his background but it all makes a lot of sense. You make your points well.
I reflected back on violence in my life.
I have two incidents of violence in my life which were life-changing. First, I was a fairly violent little tomboy (much to my mother's chagrin) and tended to win my fights against boys, who were the ones I had a problem with. But then, one day I was fighting with my brother. Puberty had come for him. I lost badly. And I never picked a flight with a guy again. I got that with post-puberty males, try a different tack - like friendliness, agreeableness, kindness. That worked. No man was interested in hitting me until episode two.
I will skip the details but I ended up stepping between a very unequal fight between and a man and woman. The man turned on me and, a broken nose and 36 stitches later, I would have done nothing different. Everyone told me I was crazy to have done that. But, I found out that was my bottomline. I was - it turns out - a fight and not flight kinda of woman. I was ready to die to help a woman in distress. Plus, I found out that if a man wanted to, he could kill me really easily. So, again - I should lean into to friendliness, agreeableness, kindness. Which I try to do on a daily basis - and it has worked! - but I still might die defending a weaker person. I am ok with that.
So, for a woman, it's all quite different. But violence is certainly a teacher.
As an aside, in terms of the Obama/Trump famous incident, you say: "propagandists have since denied any link between the roasting of Trump that night and his election as President five year later in 2016, but it is true." Who are these propagandists? I thought everybody knew that was true.
Wow--full respect, Robin! I'm horrified to hear how badly you were injured in that fight, but I feel tremendous admiration for your courage and willingness to fight for the weak and vulnerable. I was similarly motivated in almost all my fights, but I never paid the price you did. You are an authentic warrior in the best possible sense, the sense I'm writing about, those gifted human beings who are also physically and morally courageous. It's a total revelation to me that you have stepped up the way you did, but knowing you it's not a surprise. Well done--I salute you!
It's good I live in a neighborhood that it is unlikely that I will be in that situation again! So, I know it is both true of myself, but very unlikely.
Thanks for writing this! Any recommendations for martial arts training? I’m interested in self-defense mostly and have been considering Krav Maga but I don’t how much does it live to the hype
I studied Tae Kwon Do as a teenager in Korea, but it was too violent for me, not my style—I didn’t want to cripple opponents. By contrast, Joe Rogan became quite a champion in Tae Kwon Do. Today, Joe Rogan practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and believes it to be the highest level of martial arts, although a BJJ practitioner has to add a striking capability in order to be a fully effective fighter.
Personally, I’ve been training in Tai Chi daily for sixteen years.
It's interesting that NY Times published this today: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/11/technology/tech-crypto-martial-arts.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Gk8.PdIW.LuH44WsbaFX5&smid=url-share
Yours is a much more interesting take, but it's in the air.
Interesting—thank you!
…it’s incredible the cultural moment comedy is having, but also unsurprising I suppose given all the historical contexts…this piece made me remember a time someone pointed out to me how difficult mentally it might be to play football…it was a surprise at the time because i played it and had almost exclusively meatheaded experience with it…but i, my team, my coaches, all amateurs…to be good at football requires an intellect…being good at anything really…and in rogan’s context what he might be best at currently is attracting comedy and conversation…it seems modern comedians becoming philosophers and journalists…but i think that’s old hat…what is modern might be how much we care that it is so…perhaps this is the funniest era of all time, only time will tell…i have to assume it was the caveman era because enh ugh guh enh…
You make a great point Fis--American football is extremely complex and requires high intelligence. Not coincidentally, football players also have to face their fears at the prospect of pain and injury. The whole delusion about athletes being dumb and intellectuals being smart is way overdue for being dumped on the ash heap of history.
Financial markets have always valued high-level sports achievements when hiring candidates, and that's because it's long been recognized that the ability to think under pressure with clarity, and to adapt rapidly to own's mistakes and setbacks, is the real sign of intelligence--not speaking in whatever the current code words of the academic elite may be.
And of course the ability to laugh at life and our own foibles is the best medicine and the traditional way to stay sane and balanced despite the apparent absurdities and chaos of life.
This is a wonderfully thought out piece, Chris. I've listened to Rogan a few times in the past and he always struck me as Socratic, unafraid to question or look uninformed, and definitely not willing to back down to censorship. This was excellent.
I agree with you Sam about a stellar aspect of Rogan's demeanour being the way he has no problem looking uninformed; I think that's one of the reasons so many of us relate to his approach. He doesn't let his ego get in the way of figuring something out.
I am a big fan of your Substack https://substack.com/@whatthen My reflections on violence, as an amateur, have no doubt gained much from the many times over the past year I have reflected on your meditations on your experiences as a Navy SEAL. You're a great example of a warrior who is also a first class culture creator.
My pleasure Chris, thank you.
This is really interesting -- and makes a lot of sense to me. I'm a woman, but I used to play ice hockey and still play dodgeball, both fairly "rough" sports, and I have found that many insights for my writing come to me in that meditative state when I'm playing. I'm always a bit surprised when some people look down on athletes, especially fighters and those in rougher sports, as though they aren't particularly smart -- my experience has been that most people who are really good with their bodies are also good with their minds.